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@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk · 11 hours ago

So, around 53% of UK households are net beneficiaries of the state (with 47% net contributors).

But the ONS calculates this through taxes (direct & indirect) and benefits (including those in kind; education, the NHS) & doesn't attempt to account for things like defence, the rule of law, policing, roads & so on.

So its a figure that is at best misleading & at worst promotes a rampantly individualised politics (i.e. students presented as the sole beneficiaries of university).

#politics
h/t FT

Claire McNab

@2legged@mastodon.ie replied · 9 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 I love your headline point about the absu4dity of valuing people in this way. Actually, it's evil.

But I'm less persuaded by your list of other contributions.

E.g. most what' the UK calls "defence" is actually attack.
A lot of UK law enforcement is just repression.

And there are many actively destructive jobs, which suck value from the economy and society: landlord, insurance sales, energy supplier sales, financial market trader or speculator, private car park enforcer.

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 hours ago

@2legged

Hmmm... I'm not convinced that 'a lot' of law enforcement is repression - some of it is, but the Q. is what counts as 'a lot', but I get the point;

On defence; deterrence is not limited to nuclear capacity, few if any states feel so secure in their international relations that they do not have armed forces; the UK is no different (and so it *is* a benefit however hidden it may be).

But you last point is on the button; all sorts of people are net-costs against the 'good society'.

Claire McNab

@2legged@mastodon.ie replied · 6 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 100years of Irish defence policy has been based on the usually-unspoken assumption that we fave no prospect of meaninful defensive capavpbility. Or un cruder terns, anyone big enough to launvh an inasion force to get near us could overwhelm us.

So Irish defence is basically to be good neighbours.

I wish that more countries thought likewise.

Russ Cheshire

@RussCheshire@mastodon.scot replied · 10 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 1) This kind of confirms that taxes don't/can't cover all government expenditure; 2) How many businesses are also "net beneficiaries of the state"?

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 hours ago

@RussCheshire

Many large corporations seem to have limited there tax exposure while harvesting a range of supports (corporate welfare) so the answer to 2) would likely be: too many

vicarvernon

@vicarvernon@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @RussCheshire it's not just corporate welfare, they'll expect decent infrastructure (roads etc.), security (police locally, defence internationally), an educated and healthy workforce, yet won't be willing to contribute to costs of providing this environment to do business in.

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 hours ago

@vicarvernon @RussCheshire

Agreed; which is part of the reason Joel Bakan argued that Corporations were sociopathic

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