Post · CoreSignal social

Indeed; whether that's 'signing away' sovereignty is a different matter;

like membership of the EU, a key aspect of sovereignty *is* the ability for a country to make long-term agreements... many of which are useful (or even vital) to a country's national interests.

The Q. of Bilateral Investment Treaties is more about the ability of a state's diplomats to negotiate a favourable treaty (or not)... that said BITs are notorious for foregrounding private sector interests....

Claire McNab

@2legged@mastodon.ie replied · 7 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6 i sm notbpersuaded by the ideavof the #EU as as a positive model for how to handle sovereignty. From the Maastricht Treaty onwards, the EU has taken an increasingly deep bite of national sovereignty, and locked member states into internal rules and external treaties which entrench neoliberalism.

@rzeta0

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 days ago

@2legged @rzeta0

Hmmm... I think I'd want to distinguish between the general point about the transfer (or perhaps linmitaiaon) of part of sovereignty though international agreement for specified ends, and the more general membership model of the EU, which I agree was far from a perfect political settlement (even with the various, now lost, special treatments).... that said, I still think on balance that membership was a positive good (if not as extensive as claimed by boosters).

Claire McNab

@2legged@mastodon.ie replied · 7 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6 For me, the initial good bits were increasingly outweighed by the centralisation and expansion. Maastricht was a historic opportunity to stop the juggernaut, but it was pushed through without referendums 😡

@rzeta0

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 days ago

@2legged @rzeta0

yes, at that point (and there were others) the EU could have gone in a different direction, but equally it has in some way shifted without the UK (mostly malign) influence - but clearly the EU is far from perfect (very far), and any member has to judge their membership on the balance of practicalities

rzeta0

@rzeta0@mastodon.ie replied · 7 days ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @2legged

practicalities ... and morality

the EU's baked-in neoliberalism is a moral issue for some

the EU's deeply ingrained zionism and anti-palestinian, anti-iranian bias is a moral issue

the EU's conflation of itself with NATO is a moral issue

... so even if membership conferred economic benefits, we may still decide we don't want to be part of that particular club

Emeritus Prof. Christopher May

@ChrisMayLA6@mastodon.me.uk replied · 7 days ago

@rzeta0 @2legged

Well, ten years ago many did take that view, and now the economic consequences have hit home, they're less convinced, so it would seem (if the opinion polls are accurate)

1 more replies (not shown)

Reg

@ReggieHere@mastodon.social replied · 7 days ago

@2legged

In that sense Brexit was a straight choice between two neoliberalisms, with the UK opting for the US version.

@ChrisMayLA6 @rzeta0

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